by | Feb 22, 2022 | Calling, discouragement, Health, Leadership, Ministry Leader, Pastor, Podcast, Small Churches

Today Jim and John continue their conversation with Karl Vaters. Karl pastors a vibrant church in California. His heart is to help pastors of small churches find the resources to lead well, and to capitalize on the unique advantages that come with pastoring a small church.

Here are the show notes:


  1. What are the markers of a healthy church, regardless of its size?
    • Small churches can be healthy and great. The smaller a church is, the harder it is to measure health.
    • Fulfilment of the Great Commission and the Great Commandment.
    • Are we equipping God’s people for works of service?
  2. What are some contributors to that small thinking?
    • Having the conversation about church health in a corner.
    • When we don’t understand that both big and small churches matter.
    • Self-despising – when you see a grasshopper in the mirror. When we see ourselves as lesser in the body of Christ.
  3. Is there a better way forward from this small thinking, and if so, what does that look like?
    • Understand what small churches actually contribute to the kingdom of God.
    • Believe that we’re called to bring change to the segment of the world God has given us influence over.
    • Remember we don’t have to pursue massive numbers to have faith.
    • Understand the difference between comfort and contentment.
  4. Pastors are on the move in 2022. What words of encouragement and/or advice do you have for pastors who are considering a transition?
    • Learn to transition without relocation – don’t stay static.
    • Keep growing in your faith.
    • Some of you might be in toxic places you need to leave.
    • Get a coach and/or mentor in your life. Pastors are the least pastored people in a church. You have to pursue mentors/coaches.