In today’s episode we welcome Karl Vaters to the mic to discuss his bestselling book, De-Sizing the Church. We dig into Karl’s research on the church growth movement and explore how discipleship and integrity are the answers to every problem a church encounters.

Four Key Takeaways

1. Discipleship and Integrity can solve every challenge the pastor of a local church faces.
2. It takes a village for a leader to live and lead with self-awareness.
3. We can/should understand the value of metrics without becoming obsessed with them.
4. The ultimate goal for a pastor should be to build a healthy, thriving church community, rather than focusing solely on numerical growth.