by | May 30, 2023 | Health, Leadership, Ministry Leader, Pastor, The Church

In today’s episode we welcome Karl Vaters back to the mic for Part 2 of our conversation around what it takes to have a vibrant, healthy church—regardless of its size.


You can listen to the podcast here. Here is the video version.


  1. Small is not a problem, a virtue, or an excuse – can you unpack that for us?
    • Not a problem – The myth of inevitable growth. Getting rid of obstacles to growth does not guarantee numerical increase.
    • Not a virtue – Small is not better than big.
    • Not an excuse – “We’ll do that when we get bigger.” Your church is big enough right now to do what Jesus is calling it to do right now.
  2. When times are normal, leaders inspire change. When times are disruptive, leaders provide stability. Can we process this one?
    • Normal times – We have lived in a relatively stable time. This stability is either gone or going. When times are normal, we help churches get unstuck.
    • Disruptive times – Helping churches and the people in them walk through disruptive seasons in a stable way to the other side. We must be people of integrity from the simplest of items to the profane. Become disciple-makers.
  3. It’s easier to teach a servant to lead than to teach a leader to serve – What do you mean by that?
    • Learning to work as a team that relies on each other.
    • You can never lose when you start with servanthood.
    • Servant identifiers – Watch and see if they serve without being asked. Too many want the title and the role without serving people.
  4. Churches that will thrive after the pandemic have resources in reserve; team-based leadership; adaptability; unity. Let’s unpack these ideas one for a bit.
    • Resources in reserve – Systems; finances; emotional and energy levels.
    • Team-based leadership – Churches where the ministry load is appropriately shared.
    • Adaptability – The more things you add to your list of “we have to do this to be a real church” the more vulnerable your organization becomes.
    • Unity – The big tragedy of the last three years is the church reflected the disunity of the culture instead of demonstrating unity.